Today's raid

Hey guys,

I hate to sound like a ninny or anything like that, but the way that the PuG was treated today really really bothered me. I understand that he didn't have Kara gear, etc., but I think that he should had been dropped from the start if that was the case. I know that we wanted to give the guy a chance, but I think it went way too far. Granted, yes he did some ignorant stuff, but this was a horrible way for the guild to behave. I like you guys a lot, and I hate to say that I'm ashamed of what I was hearing and seeing. I remember not so long ago that Anto was also made fun of by a PuG group running Kara and he turned out to be awesome in that group. Yes, the guy concerned me too simply because he didn't have the DPS needed for the harder battles. He was nowhere near ready for Kara, not even heroics with the stuff he had on him. I honestly think he should had been kicked. Stuff like this happens, and we learn from it.

I do think a good idea in the future would be to clarify the loot rules at the start of the raid before we even head to Attumen. Chev, you could write out a macro that has the text for you so you don't have to type the same thing over and over. That way, it's clear for when we have PuGs, or even from week to week when we cycle in and out. For all gear, it's really simple:

- Need if you need it for your spec/class and it is an improvement over your existing gear. If no one else needs it for their primary spec, then need for off-spec.
- Pass if you don't need it. Do not greed except for...
- The designated enchanter (usually me, but not always) always greeds. That way the loot lands in the enchanter's hands for disenchanting so the money can be spread out among the members of the raid. The enchanter then mails the disenchanted materials to Chevbank except for arcane dust for now. I'll just drop those in the guild bank.

That, to me, was the biggest problem we had today - squabbling over loot and the PuG. What are your thoughts on it?

Yep...thats why we took a step backwards this raid, but we have tomorrow to kill Shade, do Chess, kill Prince and hopefully get enough time on Netherspite.
I didn't like the squabble over the leather bracers, the loot rules clearly state that a class has priority on one armor level under their highest against non-specs.

5. Gear armor level
All specs (ofc tanks are an exception) have priority on up to one armor level under their highest armor level on their spec against non-specs.
Ex.
Holy Paladins priority on healing mail over non-resto shamans.
Resto Druids priority on healing cloth over non-holy priests.
Resto Shamans priority on healing leather over non-resto druids.
DPS Warriors priority on mail melee dps over non-enhancement shamans.
Moonkins priority on cloth magic dps over Holy Priests.


This PuG was not your normal PuG though. His gear was really out of wack. He clearly shouldn't have been there, but he whispered me on an alt...and he tricked me into thinking he had experience in there so I didn't bother doing an Armory check.
His gear is only due to a lack of information though, and unfortunately the game doesn't have many resources built-in to help a player.
I was ready to kick him, but I didn't really want to do that without the support of the raid.
We lost alot of time to master looter its true. That was it really. We were really due for a bad PuG experience. Think of all the good ppl we have met through pugging Kara. Not to say he was bad, but he just was not ready to do Karazhan.
All in all though, it shows that our gear and experience can sufficiently pull 9.5 players through half the instance with no problem, which is a good thing and shows our strength.

Hopefully we'll have better luck in the future.

Well initially I believe Veloce accidentally linked some of the hunter's gear into raid instead of guild by mistake and the hunter didn't appreciate it. People did make fun of it a little bit. Poor guy got all his gear through the AH, the Singing Crystal Axe was being mentioned because Ez sold it to him for 500g and I couldn't help noticing that it did absolutely nothing for him.
Now I'll have to agree that making fun of ppl because of their gear is in poor taste. Although this guy has some of the oddest gear choices I have ever seen (alot of his items he should of gotten better of while he was leveling with quests)
As for the mail shaman shoulders, I don't think it was for the gold but more of drawing a line on what gear he can take...that particular piece wasnt very good for him. I know it was better than what he had, but he'll be better off in the longrun by getting something actually decent for him instead of holding on to an epic he thinks is good for him.
I hate master looter.

Okay....now that we have all been scolded (and I DO agree that we should be better on the making fun of someone front) I think the loot ninja'ing is a separate issue from the comments regarding his gear. To me, it is the principle that while in a group, you just don't roll on everything that drops....and he did roll on practically everything. The healing mail was just the final straw and something did need to be said....but I tend to see things in black and white. Ianil, I think you made many valid points in your post as did Graz (though a bit verbose on his part) I personally am going to try to roll with the punches tomorrow (which is rather hard for me to do) and enjoy the game. Maybe Rack will be back from her fishing trip and we can have a complete guild run which will make looting easier. The idea put forth by Ianil to establish loot rules for puggers at the beginning of the raid is a great one and may resolve issues before they happen.

I'm totally with Grazny on this. I had no qualms with giving the hunter a piece of shaman gear, because any armor upgrade is a good thing, in my opinion, even if the gear isn't specifically for you. Lets digress to a little story time...

Once upon a time when Azeroth was filled with level 60 players, I was in a Upper Blackrock raid, and tanking shoulders dropped. There were no other plate wearers who wanted or needed the drop, and my gear was lacking, so I was allowed to roll, and won the shoulders. Now, they weren't perfect by any means, but they were a major improvement over what I had had at the time, and carried me for many raids after, until I finally got my Lightforge shoulders.

Moral of the story: if someone can use a piece of gear, even if it's not specifically for their class/spec, I say give it to them anyway. I really don't mind missing out on a few gold pieces if I can help someone become a more survivable player.