Emblem System Changes

for 3.2...

* Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
* Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.

Great news for me w/e I get to 80

sigh...this bugs me...It cheapens the whole idea of working to get gear...I happen to like the fact that to progress you have to work for it...this way it'll be back to running junk on a regular basis and the gear wont seem as...valuable...sigh...why blizzard...why...

It's a big leap for sure, they should have put the Valor badges in place for all dungeons not Ulduar when Ulduar came out...I predict w/e the raid after 3.2 comes out everything will have conquest and the new raid will have the next step up.
Overall, this has a good effect on the game...more people will run heroics/naxx, and more people will be able to run ulduar/the new one.
The one issue that is still present is that it's all about time committed to get gear (skill? no) so this is alot like what BC was like, not the best solution in the world...of warcraft.

It'll open up alot of peeps to the new stuff...but if they still don't know how to play their chars, then gear counts for nothing...or at least not a whole lot...it wont solve the issues some groups have of having the gear but being unable to progress...and also raises the problem that people will look very geared, but it wont mean that they know what they're doing so it'll be harder to screen downies out...I dunno...I'm just against opening the top level gear up to anyone that can grind a nexus...takes no skill or work to really do, whereas now peeps have to know what they're doing to progress and gear up...

Any other thoughts on this?

lol...well thats one way of saying it brandon

agree with Rant. Bottom line:

My guess is that Blizz has seen some issues with game traffic and all these radical changes are designed to generate buzz and interest with 80% of the casual player at the cost of the 20% dedicated raider. Makes sense from a business perspective and as long as 3.2 takes at leat 6 months to come out, then the dedicated Raider will still have a decided advantage heading into 3.2 with better gear and better skill.

I do, however, think that the changes are too extreme. I'd be interested to see how they may try to dial it back.

The good news, those who may be coming back into the world, like Veloce, Chev, Pulp will be able to quickly gear up and those with huge amounts of alts will also be able to quickly gear up.

Those of us dedicated to a single toon who we try to be pro at...most of us have been uniformly upset with these proposed changes--but nothing has changed yet, so I'm withholding overall judgment.

Well said Ez...I can understand the benefits...improved business and likelihood to bring in more players...and the added bonus that all the alts that have been building up will get geared, thus increasing our chances to host guild 25's over pug 25's...I just hope that it doesn't over tip the scales and flood the "market" with downies in shiny gear...or maybe create a means for those with the gear already to get something too...who knows. But I like the 6 months thing...to bad I think it'll launch in 2...maybe 3...but hopefully it'll give those who enjoy the work for gear to get more of it

I've gotta say that I don't understand the hate on the proposed changes. Anything that makes it easy for us to get a squad ready for new content is great in my book.

Very hard to find people to run heroics these days, which are the bread and butter of new 80s. The changes kind of guarantee that that problem will be alleviated.

Make no mistake, dedicated raiders will always be far ahead of casual players. It will actually take a buttload of heroics to buy gear (60 emblems for one piece = at least 15-20 heroics), and not all gear slots are covered. That's at least 300 or so emblems to put together a decent set, probably more. Most people can't accumulate that before the ever-moving Blizzard treadmill brings new challenges and gear.

That level of effort at heroics is akin to the effort serious players put into weekly raiding, which we know that casual players don't tend to do. So really, it just makes things easier on the margins for those who can only do this stuff in smaller increments most of the time and makes it more likely that serious players will be willing to participate in such activities.

I also think dialing it back would be foolish. The idea, it seems, is to keep Naxx relevant enough to keep people going in there (and giving new 80s a chance to learn endgame raid roles), to let people who were having trouble with Ulduar 10 get the little bit better gear they need to rock that out, and to encourage progression.

Though I love the fashion show of "I have great gear! How [awesome, dedicated, rich, pretty, purple] am I? Am I not shiny? Worship me!" as much as the next guy, my main enjoyment comes from playing cooperatively with people I like. (Though admittedly I don't like when I am left behind gearwise - but that has more to do with wanting to contribute.)

If these changes promote that at the expense of the fashion show, (homage to Tony the Tiger) GRRRRRREAT!!! (/homage to Tony the Tiger)

Qwik, I will always worship you, shiny or otherwise.

You, sir, are a prince among bears.

So, if the purpose of running 25s was to get to the point where we could limit our weekly kill of Deconstructor to a few dozen wipes, it would seem that all that is unnecessary if we can achieve the same thing by running heroics in a few weeks.

Many of us REALLY don't like 25s, and our guild has always been a 10-man size anyway. I'm just wondering if we might save ourselves a little grief if we can be patient for a few weeks. Am I way off here?

Alas, that's not true--badges will only ever get you certain items, so this post and badge change is really unrelated to running 25s.

The bottom line is that 25s are an necessary part of playing WoW at a high-gear level. If folks don't want to run them, BELIEVE ME, I'm happy to pug 25s and stop trying to organize them within guild.

Ez can gear himself, in short, but I've heard enough folks want to leverage the small number of folks in guild who want to run 25s to try and get a semi-guild run of 25s. I don't particularly enjoy organizing these raids...but it is getting easier, and I'm happy to continue to try and lead that charge.

separate post on that subject to come...

I am happy to run either the 25s or the 10s on either Anathemar (tank) or Cyclona (heals). I generally prefer 10s (and we have no business in Ulduar 10 until we get Ignis' foot out of our collective asses), but Naxx 25 is kind of a frenetic hoot.

The Naxx 25s have been a pain for the past little bit, but that's really only because we've just started in on them as a guild. We probably have the horses for a core group of healers and tanks if Graz, Biloba, Fant, Anto, Decerto, and I are willing to participate on a regular or semi-regular basis. It isn't hard to find pugs to fill dps slots with competents (especially if we are a bit dick-ish and ask people to link the achievement).

I totally respect those who decide that 25s aren't that fun, and my one or two times tanking Naxx 25 (or OTing, in reality), it was high pressure because there are that many more people who are going to be pissed at you if something goes awry. Remember how bad our first few Naxx 10s were way back when. Now, with our core group, we can rock it. This week was smoother than last. I suggest giving it a week or two more. If things flatten out and we start getting smoother, it will be an indication that, at least with Naxx, we can tackle the 25s if we want.

That said, people should pipe up with their preferences.

I echo that except for the assumption that Ulduar 10 is above us. It is not. It simply requires that we spend a whole 1/2 hour reading a strategy either just before the fight or, ideally, before the raid. Most of our gear is adequate, most of us are talented enough, and almost all of us are not dedicated enough to read the strats. I share in the guilt, but I will say that I know my role...just not everyone else's.

If we decide as a guild not to run Ulduar10 then no worries, just please let me know by rejecting calendar invites and sending me in game mail. I'm happy to pug it, but don't want to waste save-cylce weeks waiting for those who don't want to raid.

Most importantly, I want to emphasize that we are getting better. Flame Levi is time for hard mode, Razorscale is sorted and Deconstructor is now a cinch with the new strat. I'd like to point out that we could have probably known Deconstructor if we'd read a strat or two online...but Rapto saved us by speaking up with suggestions he and I had luckily, recently, experienced. Let's communicate. No reason we can't progress through most of Ulda with much less headache. I'll be prepared with strats this next time.

I don't think that Ulduar 10 is beyond us and didn't mean to imply that (though the implication was clear in the post). The margin for error is substantially slimmer in Ulduar than it was in Naxx, though.

I'm a downie!

i is hates downees!


this reminds me of a funny story--I recently ran a OS 25 where a rogue topped the dps meters at an eye popping 6.8Kdps for the ENTIRETY of the raid; I was second with a whopping 4.8K. I died on the first boss in that fucking void zone that always gets me... that I still haven't researched but that I was aware of, waiting for, and STILL died in, and the rogue takes the time, mid fight, to post in /s so everyone could see "die baddie rogue"...and he still rocked the meters. he was my hero and I got seriously pwned. ahhh, good times.

At the end of the raid, the Raid Leader ninja'd the dps trinket to his guild buddy, chaos ensued amongst the pug and the uber Rogue posted his meters and with a "you're all baddies! baddie players! baddies!" promptly left the raid. I wish I had remembered his name...I do recall that his toon looked EXACTLY like Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon.

true story.

in regards to all these splendid post i read while raiding today
here are my views.

the first four Ulduar bosses are NOT beyond u guys. with the exception of Ignis the first 4 = free loots and shineys. despite this, the rest of the instance is another story. As Ez and Rap saw when they came along with me to Ulduar 25M last week, the complexity and communication, as well as the understanding of these bosses seem to be out of reach. I will tell u frm experience going in w/o prior knowledge and getting a quick rundown by the RL will not give u the adequate knowledge and understanding of the fights. Although u do need to actually experience these fights to fully know what is going on, reading up the fights and watching the Youtube Vids or Tankspot help alot. (It did for me).
Another little issue thats concerns me is gear. ulduar is the "newest" content out there. That being said, ulduar even on 10man is not the same difficulty as 10m Naxx and gear will only get you soo far. If u look up wow-heroes.com, it will say Ulduar raid is past Malygos Raid. The first four bosses gear isn't a tramatic issue, but as we progress into the Antechamber and Keepers, it will become relevent that gear is needed.
My final item of affection is the ever popular emblem changes. i would like to entertain the fact that only select pieces of gear are available with the Conquest badges. The rest of the gear comes frm the actual r25m raids content and the 10m progression. I read up that even the downies wont be able to gear themselves up fully for their appointment with Arthas simply becuz the rest of the gear comes frm the raids.
I personally want to continue the 25man raids on Naxxramas. Most of the gear u get there ultimately preps u for ulduar and some of the gear is actually better thatn some of the 10m ulduar content..i shit you not. in fact i believe Raptor picked up http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40396 The Turnign Tide off of KT 25m. That sword is the BiS until u hit 25man ulduar content for pallys/locks/mages, so believe me, 25 naxx is well worth the time.

One more point of debate...many of us run Ulduar10 with half pug/half guild past ignis and we downed up to Freya, and we did it with minimal wipes and no preparation at all...just a brief explanation from our RL who was, admittedly and experienced and excellent tank. But many of us were worse geared and that was our first time seeing it. I do think that we can get to Freya with our core contingent...

preparation>player>gear. Prepare prepare prepare.

Yeah, I'd like to add my two cents that I agree with Anto, that 25 naxx is a rather good place for most of us to be at right now in addition to 10 man uld as most of us will find upgrades in both...and with the growing number of account specific 80's we have, theres no reason why we should shy away from 25's...I think I counted about 15-18 80's on during the 25 naxx tonight, so fingers crossed for full guild clears of 25 content soon.

Other than that, great job in 25 naxx so far, awesome DPS/Tanks/Heals...lots of fun...even if I did die like a bazillion times...lol